Donal meets with a psychic medium, Tracey, who has been involved in the case and remained in contact with Andrea since the very beginning. As well as revealing her own visions and theory on Georgina Gharsallah’s case, Tracey and Andrea discuss the constant contact from psychics, offering their sometimes questionable services to the family.
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**If you have any information regarding the Georgina Gharsallah case, please contact Sussex Police quoting ‘Operation Pavo’ or via Crimestoppers**
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Donal: On the 7th of March 2018 Georgina Gharsallah left her home in Worthing and vanished without trace.
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Clive Driscoll: Every single case I’ve ever had where I’ve had success historically, is there’s been a parent or someone who hasn’t allowed the police to forget it, hasn’t allowed the public to forget it.
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Petra: We stop at absolutely nothing we’re not scared; we are not scared.
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Donal: A mother’s journey to uncover the truth.
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Andrea: I want answers I want to find out what happened, and I won’t stop until I do.
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Donal: Murdered, Missing, Unsolved. The search for Georgina.
Episode Eight – The Medium
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Donal: Ever since Andrea launched the campaign to find Georgina, she has been inundated by people offering their theories and thoughts of what happened to her daughter. Most are well-meaning, some are intentionally hurtful, and a few genuinely disturbing. Throughout, various psychics have come forward and, also been sought out by Andrea. One psychic medium in particular, a local woman named Tracy, has remained in contact with Andrea from the very beginning.
I was keen to meet Tracy and managed to catch some time with her to sit and discuss the case while we were setting-up for our incident room (which we’ll come to in a later episode). We could only speak in an echoey shop unit with people drifting in and out, but I think the effort it takes to get past that is well worth it to hear what Tracy has to say…
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Donal: So, some cases find you and sometimes you find the cases?
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Tracey: Yeah. It's what I'm drawn to, yeah, sometimes I go on Twitter, I have a look and I see what I'm drawn to. It's only certain things that I'm drawn to.
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Donal: How were you drawn to this case?
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Tracey: Um…. the fact that it was Worthing and, uh…. her image just stood out and I thought yeah…. Okay.
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Donal: And did you see it first in the newspaper or on television? Can you remember?
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Tracey: Um…. when it was first broadcasted, it was I think…. I think it was your interview on BBC South…. I think when you first did that.
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Donal: And Tracey, how did you…. when did you first realise you have this talent?
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Tracey: Many years ago, but it's only been the last two years I've actually uh…. come onto the pathway and started using my gift, I would imagine…. I would I’d…I’d do a lot of free readings on my page, and I do a lot of, um…. very cheap readings as well. So, it's not as though I do it for large amounts of money, I just do it generally to use my gift basically.
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Donal: And have you done any training? You mentioned some schools. There is some training here, I know Tony Stockwell quite well, and he runs a couple of the psychic schools and reading schools and things like that.
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Tracey: I've sat in circles and things like that, I have been trained.
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Donal: So, listen, you've done some great work on this, you've been very committed and passionate with this.
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Tracey: I have... yeah because like, um…. Andrea…. I mean, I'm a mother myself of four, and I was…. you know, I've got two daughters and obviously if one of my daughters went missing, how would I feel? In fact, we used to live in Worthing as well, so that attracted me to the whole case.
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Donal: And also, because I mean telepathically as a psychic, things connect with you because they connect with you. What were the first thoughts that came in that connected you with….
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Tracey: It was mainly the train station, I think, I can’t remember it was nearly a year ago now, what with the train station and uh… it was the fact, I think generally, I think it was the fact that she just didn't go off. I mean, a lot of people it was quite annoying because they said, oh…. Georgina just walked away and had made her own life, and I knew deep down that she didn't do that. I knew from straight off…. I had these images, um…. remote vision it's called, and, um…. I knew that it had to do with two males that she already knew, and there was a third person involved, which I knew was a lady…. which I said right from the start.
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I mean, I, I know for a fact that she was, um…. she was held, I know that I sensed it and I saw images. Um…. and I know its connections to Brighton. I don't know whether they were from Brighton. It's just putting all the pieces together. I mean, I told Andrea from the beginning, I said there was two males, and there was a female involved. Um…. I saw images of the train station, that's why I went back there, and the image that keeps recurring is the black car. I don't know whether it was a black cab or, um…. some sort of transport. I know, I felt that she went into the back of this car, and I saw black leather interior, and I felt it was, um…. searched. I think it was cleaned thoroughly, because I had this image of someone cleaning the back of the car and stuff or checking down, do you remember me saying that…
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Tracey: Or checking down to see if anything was left in the back of the car.
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Donal: What happens when you are getting a sense? How do you put yourself into that mood? Because I remember you know…
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Tracey: I just focus on images and photos and psychometry.
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Donal: Is it easier if you hold…. if you have something that belongs to the missing person?
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Tracey: Yeah, yeah which I did do
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Andrea: Mm… that’s when you came to the house
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Tracey: I held I believe it was one of her lighters.
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Andrea: A lighter and a chain, wasn't it?
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Tracey: Um…. I think so. Yeah. And that's when I saw those images, of the car and the train station.
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Donal: When you saw her, was she wearing the same clothes or different clothes?
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Tracey: Th…. that's the thing, I only see certain things. …and I saw um…. the driver I feel, um…. he had something hanging down from the um…. the mirror, um….
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Donal: And can you describe the driver? Was he white, Asian, black, English?
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Tracey: Yeah, not British and I felt there was a connection with, um…. the long white robe they normally they wear.
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Tracey: Yeah…. Yeah…. I saw a gold watch. Um…. what else did I see? Um…. they're just, yeah…. just several images and it's just, it's just, like, trying to fit all the pieces together.
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Donal: Did any of those image’s kind of connect with you? The…. the robe, wealth, watches men, anything familiar?
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Andrea: Well, it was only familiar because I've lived in that kind of culture, living abroad, and they would wear things like that…. but I don't know anybody here. I don't know that Georgina knew anybody here.
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Donal: And then did she have a connection or attraction to men from that culture because, you know, she, she always spoke Arabic sometimes.
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Andrea: Sometimes, she didn't have, she didn't really sort of hang around with any sort of Arabic she…as you know she had the Romanian she had quite a few Romanian, and Albanian friends, I don't think they sort of dressed in that sort of eastern way um…. as far as I know, she didn't sort of have any sort of Arabic….
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Donal: So, bring us through the very first time you had any connection with the case.
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Tracey: Um…. so, I maybe messaged on Facebook and um…. I felt compelled to work on and help, um…. Andrea and her family, and, um… and then you asked me to come along and, uh…. to the home and, um… to read. And a lot of things came up I think that resonated with you, wasn't it? Uh… the Royal Albion hotel which I picked up and apparently, she went there, um….
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Donal: Bring back that, so, you mentioned the Royal Albert hotel...
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Tracey: Yeah. In the very first reading, of course. I don't know the family at all when I first you know got in contact with them. And I brought up quite a lot of things, um…. that I didn't know about her and the surroundings situations, the Royal Albion hotel, the connections with Brighton. Um…. and I felt there was a lot of people, um…. that led her onto a different pathway, should I say.
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Andrea: Didn’t you come back twice and do the psychometry? Not just once I know you’d been twice anyway.
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Andrea: Both times Tracey mentioned about the garages.
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Tracey: Yeah, that is right the three things that, um… the three pointers are the car, I feel was very significant. The travel, because I felt that she was picked up from Worthing, um…was um…. put in the back of the car, um…. black car, the um… connections to Brighton, and what was the other main thing? Yeah, the garage.
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Donal: If you add everything that you’d envisaged and touched and feel describe what you think has happened to her and where she is now.
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Tracey: Right. So, I feel straight away in the reading, I said I felt that she was going on an appointment offer, and she’d gone with someone, and I felt there was a change of direction, or someone changed their mind or along those lines. Um…. um… I feel there's a conversation with another male. I felt he got angry. She was upset and distressed, and that's how I think things changed that day, and that's how I feel that she was held against her will.
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Donal: And you mentioned the car…
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Tracey: The black car was very, very, um…. crucial.
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Donal: And the black car you think so...
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Tracey: I thought it was a Lexus, that's the symbol I saw.
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Donal: So, you feel that she had an appointment. She met a man there was a disagreement. She got very distressed at that stage plans, everything changed, and then you just feel a sense that she was placed in the car against her will.
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Tracey: Um….no, I felt that she got in the car, they had a conversation it was happy, and, um… she was in, um…. in a good mood because I thought she was leaning forward; she was engaging with the person. I felt she knew this person, um…and then things changed. I felt he was disappointed because she changed her mind about an appointment or something that she, he wanted her to do or just along those lines.
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Donal: And you mentioned two people, two people, did you in terms of…
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Tracey: I think there's two males and a female involved. Definitely, and I said right from the beginning, I said back in your home that's um… I sense that there was an older lady and I felt that she knows exactly what went on that day. I think she knows.
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Donal: And describe, or can you describe the two men you had the sense of?
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Tracey: I feel that one was stocky, one was a lot shorter than the other one, was the other male. Um… and I feel that one of them had, um…. tan boots, like builder's boots, which later someone sent me a picture of someone actually wearing boots in connection with the building site, which often, um… which was very strange.
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Donal: Now you believe that she's within the hinterland of Worthing and Brighton? and …
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Tracey: Yeah, I don't think she's gone any further than that.
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Donal: And can I ask you a terrible question in front of Andrea? If you’ll forgive me, do you think, or sense whether she's dead or alive? I mean, let's face it, the police have already said she's murdered. I don't believe that, but that means so...
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Tracey: Is that your personal view?
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Donal: No, I don't have a personal view, but I think the police have already said murder. So, what do you… what do you think? Well, I mean, the thing is Andrea's been through these sensitivities, so she's been… she's been as resilient and robust...
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Tracey: Everybody had an open mind for a long time. I knew there was something happened to her. I knew straight away. And I, um, I sensed that they were, um… that I thought that she was, she banged her head and she hit her head. And, um… I don't think…I don't think it was intentional. That's what I feel.
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Donal: You think it was an accident, so...
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Tracey: And they've panicked, that's what I feel.
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Andrea: I think as well, you mentioned before that you had…. you heard footsteps as well uh… you felt footsteps in the woods or something?
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Tracey: Yeah, the woods was, definitely, um… highlighted in the reading, um… I felt what with the garage I felt that she was taken from there. I really do feel strongly about this, where she is held against her will. And, um… I felt that she was really distressed. She was crying outside. She said that to you didn’t I she was sitting on, um… a cold floor, concrete floor, I felt it was a garage or some sort of container, and I felt at the time that they just wanted to scare her. I felt that, um… that she…where she wanted to change her mind on something, they go no you’ve got to do this. I thought um…. a bully boy tactic, I wanted to say. I felt that Georgina has a very easy way with her. She, I think she wanted to make people happy. She’s very easy pleasing to people, and I felt that these people round her, unsavoury characters, um… were, um… sort of like intimidating her in a way. I felt the woods was a, a strong connection, that's why I was drawn there, and that's funnily enough where I found the two items.
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Tracey: Another moment is… sorry to interrupt, but there was another person that actually mentioned woods and leaves, and that's where I found the ring and the wrapper. I don’t even know what it is but….
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Donal: And where…. where were those woods? Where are those woods?
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Tracey: Hollingbury Park.
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Donal: Where's that?
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Tracey: That’s of off Ditchling Road.
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Donal: In Brighton.
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Donal: So, you were driven, kind of encouraged, you felt intuitively you should go to this park?
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Tracey: Yes, um…. because I originally went there straight away, didn’t I? As we were walking through, I said, where do you feel we should go? And we came to, um…. this cut off stump and I started um…. I need to go up here where there was a pile of leaves, which has been placed on top of leaves upon leaves, and, um…. I walked on top of the leaves where there was a seat and um…. as we walked along where the seat was, there was trees. After looking I said, oh, I think there's, there's, something down there and I moved it, we thought it was copper piping and there was a ring buried within the earth there. I thought why would that be there, and we walked along a little bit more, there was a wrapper with Georgina’s name… I know it sounds a bit bizarre, but I thought why would that be?
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Donal: So, there was a wrapper?
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Tracey: A wrapper with her name on it.
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Donal: With her name on it?
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Tracey: With the ring, obviously, I have the pictures with me.
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Donal: So, that's extraordinary, you were driven to this park, and you had the sense and to this kind of collection of leaves in this beautiful park, and then you discover this, this ring and then beside the wrapper with Georgina on it?
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Donal So, this is the photograph of the wrapper?
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Tracey: I just want to know what is that? Is it a biscuit wrapper or…
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Donal: To clarify here – Tracy is showing us photographs of what appears to be a biscuit wrapper with the word, Georgina, printed across it, along with a ring which seems to have symbols, possibly in Arabic printed on it. Tracy found both of these items partially buried in Hollingbury Park, Brighton – a place she felt compelled to travel to…
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Donal: So, you pictured there were two men and a woman, an older woman in the pictures…. an older woman?
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Donal: Who was kind of directing events?
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Tracey: Yeah. I think she’s part of it, I think she knows quite a bit. It could even be the girl that's pictured in the CCTV.
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Donal: Tell me this? The CCTV some of the police believe it was Georgina, sometimes I think they’re not sure, the families think it most likely is Georgina. What's your sense about that video footage? Do you think it's her? Because what's true…. even if it's not Georgina and a companion, those two have never come forward.
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Tracey: It's quite…. but I mean, did you feel that it was Georgina?
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Tracey: Yeah. And I…. I truly believe that that girl is obviously hiding. She's too scared. She's probably scared for her life.
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Donal: Do you think there's a bit of the grooming.
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Tracey: Yes. Definitely.
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Donal: Okay, so you think that maybe she may have been mixing with some kind of…
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Tracey: Unsavoury characters.
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Donal: Unsavoury characters. Which might involve that traditional grooming we've seen.
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Tracey: I think so.
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Donal: Okay, and that.…. so, the garb…. the kaftan garb was somebody who was kind of from an Arab background?
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Tracey: I just feel that he was the driver, he may not have had any dealings with Georgina later on that day, but I definitely saw a man wear that sort of regalia.
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Donal: And so, do you think she's buried, thrown into the sea? Where do you think she’s…?
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Tracey: Definitely not water…definitely not water. And the woods is where I saw…. I saw a man walking and I heard…. I heard, heavy footsteps. I feel he may be slightly overweight with the boots. Um…. and I feel there was definitely two males.
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Donal: Do you have any sense of the colour of eyes and the description of the men other than a little bit of…
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Tracey: No, that's the thing. I only get shown what I get shown. It’s very…. a lot of people say that, well you should know where, you know this, no it doesn't work like that.
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Donal: And how have people reacted? I mean, I said to you…. listen, it's fantastic, anybody can help, anybody who's committed. And like the police, any investigator would want to talk with you, of course. What is the reception you've gotten online bearing in mind, anyone online, it's just a monstrous world?
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Tracey: Yeah, I've got a few funny comments. Last year when I put um…. something um…. on Facebook. Um…. I had some horrible comments which were taken off.
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Donal: And um…. have other psychics offered their services to you Andrea?
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Andrea: We have, we did earlier on in I think the first six months me and Sara did, um…. sort of contact quite a few online, sort of, psychic mediums where we had to actually pay, I think one was like 90 pounds, we did a couple of those and each one of them was sort of something completely different.
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Andrea: And one said that they felt she was living down in this cottage on this deserted farm in Wiltshire and it was like, kept seeing roses and that she was happy and she's by herself, she's living by herself. And….
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Donal: Anybody who knows Georgina knows she isn’t living by herself, is she? She's a people person.
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Tracey: No, she wouldn't, I mean, she wouldn't just have gone off and she just got two boys obviously, and a wonderful family. So…
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Donal: Just to re-tread some difficult area but effectively you believe that Georgina is dead as a result of a row and she is buried somewhere in the woods around outside of, um…. Brighton or Worthing? And she came to her end, uh…. following her journey in a black likely cab, a Lexus. And you mentioned, it's quite interesting that you felt that there was a heavy cleaning job done
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Tracey: Yeah, earlier on in the first reading.
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Donal: Was that a hint…. that somebody might be really... I'm sorry, Andrea
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Tracey: I know, that's why I didn't want to talk about it in front of Andrea.
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Donal: So, no it's, um….and that's difficult, you know, but we still have hope I'll tell you one thing…. she was loved, and she is still loved. Is it difficult for you, you know, when you're trying to give answers, but sometimes your psychic readings are giving bad news, I mean how do you...?
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Tracey: It is really difficult, yeah. You try and be diplomatic, but sometimes you see things you think, oh if I don’t say things they’re not going to move forward anywhere if I, if I hold back on the images that I might see, um….and yeah.
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Donal: Andrea, how do you feel about, do you believe in psychic readings or...
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Andrea: I do...yeah
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Donal: You're a spiritual person, you've lived in different cultures? You know...
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Andrea: If that is the case then I've got all those things that go through my head, like how? You know, how did it happen? How did she feel?
(Andrea starts crying while Petra comforts her before saying)
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Petra: Let's keep the hope for now, that’s it, we need to keep the hope. That's the important bit because nothing has been confirmed.
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Tracey: No, that's right. And the police work on facts like they told me in the interview.
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Petra: Yes, but…. but to be fair, it's not just the police, the mother deals in facts.
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Tracey: Yeah exactly…
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Petra: The mother needs to clearly know and have clear evidence either way, whatever has happened. So, you know, it’s about the evidence, the evidence of anything of what has happened to Georgina. You know…. so, anyone can say whatever they want, if there is no evidence, you can't actually tangibly show Andrea what has happened to her daughter. And I, you know, I as Andrea's friend, I find it quite…. I actually find it very distressing when Andrea has to be reminded constantly that there is a possibility your daughter is not alive. I actually find it very distressing on her behalf. Uh…. you know, because I know what the impact is. The impact is actually horrendous.
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Donal: Well Andrea we have hope, but if it…. if it was to come to the worst…. the worst, and she's no longer with us, at least you'd have an answer, and that's not…. that's no consolation. I know…. I know the police have already declared her murdered, and I don't think there's any evidence of that. We’ll certainly do our best to get answers. And if the worst of the worst we'll be there to comfort you, along with the rest of Worthing who've been out here supporting you. It's slim comfort. But you know, she is loved isn't she.
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Donal: It's heart-breaking to witness the impact that Tracy’s theory has had on Andrea and underlines again the effect that this never-ending flow of information has had upon her and the Gharsallah family. But it also proves that Andrea will listen to anyone and stop at nothing to find out what happened to her daughter. No matter what your opinion is of Tracy’s process and theory, it shows the lengths that this family will go to in their search for Georgina…
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Donal: If you have any information regarding the Georgina Gharsallah case no matter how insignificant you may think it is please contact Sussex Police on 101 or in confidence via Crimestoppers who are offering a 10,000-pound reward.
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Pause with continuation of background music…
Donal: ‘Murdered, Missing Unsolved’ is presented by me Donal MacIntyre and produced by Inherent Productions and Steve Langridge, music is by Alex Sayne and additional audio production by John Franklin Audio.
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